Also, if you have a leak in your exhaust anywhere, the tailpipe reading will be lean. TBH I would have expected your engine to go pop by now running over 13:1 at 1.4 BAR.

_________________
If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

Hi, Yes same Dyno..

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Steve Gillies
ST-165 88 UK

www.GT4-Play.co.uk

OK, Fitted my AFR Wideband gauge tonight and went for a drive!

On Idle im seeing around 15.0
Crusing at 60Mph at around 2700rpm and very light throttle setting im seeing around 16-16.7
WOT is pretty much the same as SRR print out low 13's to high 12's, certainly no 11's in there!

I turned boost controller off and did the same WOT runs and the fuelling remained the same @ 0.7 bar Boost.


So, I disconnected the new thicker battery cable and went for a run, NO change at all...
the Hand controller is showing 13.4 to 13.7v at idle and at WOT

The car is major lean, off the scale, on over run and causes a LOT of pops and bangs but the the car always has popped and bang like this...

Next is to plumb in a fuel pressure gauge and see if the fuel pump is all ok, i suspect it is OK..if it is ok.....

This leads me back to me changing the settings of the Throttle Position Sensor.....

_________________
Steve Gillies
ST-165 88 UK

www.GT4-Play.co.uk

Or so I thought.....
Looking back through the history of the work I've done to the car it seems in late 2010 I fitted a 3" D/Pipe replacing the K.O 2.5" D/Pipe meaning the car was mapped with this smaller pipe on.
The K.O D/Pipe was sold as a 2.5" pipe but iirc I measured the outlet and found it to be smaller than that....

Surely if this could make a big difference running a bung in the exhaust would richen it back up?

_________________
Steve Gillies
ST-165 88 UK

www.GT4-Play.co.uk

There is a setting in PFC for throttle position correction on mixture, but it's been set to 0 on the maps I've seen.

From my own experience on my 185, I found quite a high resistance path to the injector ballast. I doubt this much drop is down to drop on wires alone so is probably a deteriorationg connector somewhere. If you have similar, it would account for fuelling dropping as you are effectively running a lower voltage on your injecotrs than the ECU thinks. Sadly, you will probably need an oscilloscope to see the problem.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4893&start=17

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If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

Here you go
Blanket recalc of INJ map from actual and desired afr
https://www.dropbox.com/s/50ep82xiso7wh ... xls?v=0mcn

Paste in your basemap
Type in the measured AFR and the AFR you desire

New basemap will be scaled appropriately

Note
The basemap that's in there is from my car running :-
Freeflow filter
3" exhaust with sports cat
800CC injectors (sard)
Stock fuel pressure
Turbo Technics S147 hybrid
This might give you some clue if your map looks somewhat similar - I was aiming for 10.8-11 AFR on boost (You can see the full fuel map from the xls file I posted up yesterday

I guess your target figure for AFR was 11 and the measured was ~13 - about an 18% reduction
I don't think anything you've done is likely to have changed the VE of the engine by 20% and realistically it seems unlikely the TPS correction factor would be that much unless the TPS reading was massively different

edit
Now with 100% more links for more linky goodness

Inj Vs TPS?
TPS% has different settings Vs Setting showing 1.000 for all.

IGN Vs TPS
TPS% has different settings Vs Advance- 0


Thanks Steve, Will take a look!

I purchased the AEM AFR Gauge and so far seems to be reading the same as SRR which i hope is a good thing!
Whats the general concensus, a bigger freer flowing D/Pipe could knock the afr that much?

_________________
Steve Gillies
ST-165 88 UK

www.GT4-Play.co.uk

I take it the small pipe from manifold to FPR is still connected and not blocked ? If this were missing it would go rich at light throttles and weak on boost, possibly by the sort of % you're seeing. The RR graph only shows full throttle so manifold pressure would only be positive so you'd only see the weak side.

_________________
If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

It is still connected and the same pipe as when it was mapped.
Base Fuel pressure is 45psi with the vac line disconnected and around 40 with the vac line connected.

Thank you for every ones advice and input once again, it's appreciated

_________________
Steve Gillies
ST-165 88 UK

www.GT4-Play.co.uk

Steve,
Are you able to log stuff?

IMHO what we really need to see is the base timing & fuelling in copmparison to the actual fuelling & timing. You can do this by looking at the base map and comparing to the log. Assumings things are running well there should be little difference. If there is a large difference between either fuelling or as suspected ignition and fuelling then we know the ECU is compensating for something.

What knock levels are you getting at 1.4 bar and 13:1 AFR?? I would expect these to be high also if 13:1 is true.

I still think that this is igniotion timing related as well as something odd with fuelling as you are losing so much power at the same boost level which is not akin to my understanding of how it would be effected by AFR alone.

Now... if you were running std ECU it would make sense as the ECU would pull timing in the event of high knock but with PFC it does not do this.


WHERE HAVE YOU LOCATED THE WIDEBAND SENSOR? could both you and SRR be measuring the same exhaust leak? It is possible, I don't have any experience of full load exhaust leak impact of AFR readings but I would have thought it would only really be altered at low load for MOT test not at full chat.

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R

Hi JP, I can Log with the help of a mate with datalogit..

Knock levels are low, i every now and then see 55 if the W/Inj has a funny 5 minutes, which is audible..
usual running is around 15-20.

Im measuring the AFR at the bottom of the D/Pipe, SRR measure in the tail pipe.

Few updates...

I changed the TPS settings back to roughly what i think they were... NO change to the AFR's, I will stop banging on about that one now
I then added the Exhaust bung in to try and simulate the same back pressures/restrictions to the car being mapped with a 2.5" D/Pipe....NO Change to AFR's.

Along the way i was unable to alter idle speed of which it suddenly struck me why!
the TPS is now well out of spec meaning the car again doesn't think its on Idle meaning im unable to adjust this setting..One PITA sorted..I hope, yet to set it back up and try but I'm sure it will be OK.

I then recall reading about the ability to raise or lower IGN and INJ on a mass level...
this of course is reverted back to the saved settings when you turb off the ignition.

Soon as i started to raise the INJ Cor the AFR started to read lower, Richer.

i set this to around 1.100 and went for a drive..

The car now dives into the 11's!!

After several more runs if i set the INJ cor to around 1.093 im seeing around 11.5..
Of course this means idle mixture is higher..

BINGO! the car no longer stalls either....

All makes sense and seems very obvious...

Of course the next question is to why has the mapped changed so much.....

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Steve Gillies
ST-165 88 UK

www.GT4-Play.co.uk

Having re-read this i need to clarify a few points..

The car now dives into the 11's!! (When driving hard) going slightly richer higher up the rev range as the RR print out suggest's.

Before altering any settings:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69betsy69/9025567943/

After altering:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69betsy69/9025568675/

Please excuse the 'Heath Robinson' Install, final location and mounting material yet to be decided!

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Steve Gillies
ST-165 88 UK

www.GT4-Play.co.uk

If it's idling that lean then o2 feedback is off too. You can change that from the commander and it stays set too. Just don't ask me what the words look like for the option. I know Japanese symbols for Osaka,Kyoto,Tokyo and coffee but everything else is squiggles

Numbers are still the same so you're looking for something like squiggle squiggle 2 squiggle

BTW that setup looks pretty tidy. I spent weeks driving round in ear defenders with a hose connected to the head coming through the drivers window when I was mapping mine. Great knock detector but I did get some funny looks. Cue JP with the detbuster 3000 picture

O2 Feedback was switched off years ago by Ryan as he was unable to get the cruise AFR at a acceptable level, it was way to Rich!
The car was then mapped for Idle and Cruise..I don't even have a O2 sensor fitted any more.
Again this was done on or before 2009

_________________
Steve Gillies
ST-165 88 UK

www.GT4-Play.co.uk

I wish I could say I was surprised by that