Steve, isn't that last picture upside down m8.....unless you've got the Black Knight on a rotisserie

What are you using to kill the small spots of rust bug before you spray the black?

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

Sadly the car is very much fixed in position. The two remaining attached wheels are firmly planted on the drive meaning that the painter has to adopt the rotisserie approach. This is not fun in any way shape or form

The process I used on that section:-
Thorough degrease/clean using brake cleaner. I find this most effecive at cutting through the road tar, diff oil deposits (from diff breather) old soft underseal and general gooey crud that accumulates
Then everything gets attacked with the wire brush to remove flaking stuff
Then remove bad rust flakes with a chipping hammer type thing (I use a paint scraper in actual fact)
Then sand back the worst of the rusr spots with a bit of 80 grit
Then apply rust conversion solution to the rust - I use an old bottle of Trustan which has proved itself on the keels of our boat. But it ran out today so I expect to use kurust next
Sand back this rust converter paint and re-apply
Zinc/acid etch primer coat
A good coat of Tetrosyl stone chip

In that area that I photod I'll probably leave it at that. I've barely removed any of the original paint and it's in an impact free zone
For the "main" underbody I'll probably go rust converter, prime, regular 2k paint, stonechip, paint

It's a sub optimal solution but given the constraints of doing it on stands on the driveway it's about the best I could come up with

Wow, sounds like a bit of a mission Don't envy you doing all that lying under the car for hours chipping off the crud. I think I'd be using one of these padded trolley things on casters to save my poor old bod some of the aches and pains.

Keep up the good work

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

"trolley things"

DOH. Why did I not think of that! I've been using the age old lie on the ground and make sure there's a few big stones/bolts laying about for extra discomfort

The worst part is my neck oddly enough. After an hour or so I have to prop my head up on a block of wood. Much more of this and I'll be able to out neck Lewis H

You're welcome to borrow mine but its currently got a gearbox on it!

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

more cleaning, sanding, painting, neckache and general doom and gloom


After a good clean up. First with engine degreaser, then brake cleaner. Doesn't look too bad in the main floor section but close inspection shows a few micro-blisters. Still, it's very tempting to just bung more underseal on and walk away

However, just to disprove all of you who think that's what I did lol

Sadly the poop Whiteline ARB brackets have transferred their rust into surface rust on the chassis rails. It's not serious luckily. Shown here before the first application of rust converter

Been lurking around this post for a while now, following the progress and have to say...outstanding work Steve.

One question that springs to mind, as I'm also refurbing the rear subframe, arms, etc on the monster, is...
did you manage to get replacement subframe bushes?

_________________
Vice Chairman
1990 White UK Celica ST185 - Project DTM
1997 Cream BMW R1200C (as seen in James Bond "Tomorrow Never Dies")
2005 Jaguar X-type 3.0 Sovereign AWD Automatic
Blood Bikes - https://www.freewheelers.org.uk/

Hiya Nigel

I have a suspicion that we're talking about diferent bushes here

The ones in distress on mine are/were the small diff carrying subframe to main subframe ones

Sadly the main ones are an integral part of the small subframe which Toyota want £250 for

My solution was to replace them with Powerflex 200 series washers.
I used 2 in total. A 75mmx32mm (GPR part PF99-206) and a 50mmx17mm (GPR part PF99-204).
Both were then cut in half to give 4 washers in total. 2 @75mmdia, 17mmish thick and 2@ 50mmdia 8mmish thick
I chopped the "castellated" rubber bush off the top of the beam. and then dremmeled the centre of the 75mm washer to suit the remaining tube stub. then I dremmeled the centre of the 50mm washers to suit the lower mounting

Hopefully you'll get the idea from this. You can see the new bushes and their assembled position on the right


For the main subframe->body mounts I'm as stuck as you (not that I'm looking to replace in this build)
Nobody that I can find offers a replacement. I'm not even sure if they are replacable.
I do have some ideas but they mainly involve stiffening up what's already in place.
The stock (205) bushes have some compliance voids in them. I'd probably just try to fill those with high shore polyester
I figure on doing much the same to the 4 cup style washers as these have large compliance gaps in them as well
It's either that or attempt to press the bushes out of the main subframe but I'm not honestly sure if they are removable

Dredged up my old post regarding replacement bushes http://gt4dc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ushes#4548

The subframe bushes are the large round objects in the middle of the pic.
I have no idea how you'd actually go about removing the old bushes from the subframe, maybe the application of heat and a press will do the trick.

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

Seen those Don

52271-20040 from Toyota (205 part)

But nobody seems to offer an uprated replacement. Youy picture clearly shows the compliance voids I was talking about though

Oh well, it was worth a try. Looks like the only uprated parts TTE supplied were the engine mounts

I'd inspect the chassis pins carefully as I discovered one of them had failed on Stormy This meant that theoretically the subframe could flap around in the breeze .....probably didn't do a lot for the handling either. Just thinking that if you fill the compliance slots in the old bushes with a high shore material that the ensuing increase in vibration being transmitted through the bush to the chassis could invite the pin to fail?

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

I know mine are alright as I tw@ my head on at least one of them ever time I'm under the car

All 4 have successfully survived this repeated contact with the densest material known to mankind so I'd say they are fine

I've considered the idea of welding disks on the subframe in place of the bushes and replacing the chassis pins with S/Steel bolts for a full blown "race" spec setup/ It would probably be best with some more of thosy poly washers for a modicum of comfort

Is the rear sub-frame on the 205 similar in dimensions to that of the 185?
(I know the diff is).
Reason for asking is two fold...
1. Could use those OEM sub-frame bushes for my build.
2. I was talking to my engine builder Chris the other day and he reckons, once the old bushes are out, we can measure the hole in the sub-frame where they go and then talk to Superflex (or similar manufacturer of bushes) and ask to see if they have something that will match the diameter (and hopefully length - but we could cut to size).

BTW: C-one did a Sports engine mount kit for the 205.

_________________
Vice Chairman
1990 White UK Celica ST185 - Project DTM
1997 Cream BMW R1200C (as seen in James Bond "Tomorrow Never Dies")
2005 Jaguar X-type 3.0 Sovereign AWD Automatic
Blood Bikes - https://www.freewheelers.org.uk/

The subframe bushes have an external steel casing with the rubber then bonded inside complete with the metal bush. Similar to 'metalastic' fittings. i.e. its not just a lump of rubber with a hole in it pressed into the subframe. I suppose you could just replace it with a high shore polybush but it does then fall into the experimental category. Probably fine for track use but on the road I can imagine the NVH would be through the roof! Mike found this out when he tried 'upgrading' his engine mounts

Having said that, my TrackToy master plan is to replace the heavy pressed steel subframe with a spaceframe. for optimum stiffness this would ideally be braced directly to the roll cage.

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

I think we may have identified the cause for the major NVH issue mike encountered.

There is three different shore ratings.

Shore scale OO - e.g bicycle saddle gel or wobbly bottom stiffness
Shore Scale A - Rubber type materials with some give
Shore Scale D - Hard hats and more plastic like materials. ( I am talking about plastic hardness not it truely having plastic deformation characteristics before you materials guys stomp on me)

(numbers vary in each letter category)

Our products at work for vibration isolation use the "A" range

I think mike used D65 which is similar hardness to a hard hat

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
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