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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:43 pm
Posts: 998
Location: NLD
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ST185 CS restoration and full rebuild

Although this project is currently on hold due to my other big project (restoration and full rebuild of a house), I decided to make a start with the build thread anyway.

Ever since watching WRC on TV as a kid in the early nineties, I have been a big fan of the ST185 series Toyota Celica GT-Four. I set myself a goal that one day, I had to buy one. After getting my driver license, it turned out not to be financially viable, so I bought a wide body ST182 (FF, 2.0L n/a 3S-GE) as my first car instead. Two years later I had saved more money and couldn’t stop looking for Carlos Sainz limited edition ST185s anymore, so I sold the ST182.

Being a perfectionist, it took over a year to find the right car with ‘low’ mileage, no serious damage and even more important (to me): the factory supplied limited edition plaque and certificate. One night in August 2005, while checking the car sales websites, it popped up: CS 2433. A late built (February 92) Carlos Sainz in 3E5 Super red. Bone stock with leather interior, sunroof and 123,000 km on the odometer:

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With help of a good friend of mine, who was able to check/test drive the car out straight after work, I decided to go for it. Funny fact; the day between my mate checking it out and me buying it, some other guys went to check it out as well. Both of them are now good friends, also driving GT-Fours!

After buying the car, I started to look for upgrades and tried to use the best (sometimes rare, but period correct) parts I could afford in order to improve the cars capabilities and handling. Five years later, it looked like this:

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TEIN suspension with EDFC damping control, AP Racing front/ST205 rear brakes, RAYS Volk Racing T37 wheels, HKS exhaust.

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BPU (intake, exhaust, boost, cooling) engine with several parts polished, ORC racing clutch/flywheel.

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STACK race dash display, Works Bell snap off hub with Nardi wheel, HKS electronics, several C-ONE braces, SARD battery box.

These modifications made the car a lot more nimble, thus increasing the fun factor. Besides local/national events, I took the car to some events in the UK, the renowned Swiss GT-Four meeting (as part of a road trip through Europe) and the WRC in Germany. The car also went back to its roots – the former Toyota Team Europe HQ (now Toyota Motorsport GmbH, TMG) in Cologne, Germany. After all, the Carlos Sainz model was developed as homologation model for TTE’s weapon of choice in the 1992 WRC:

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At this point, the car was almost 20 years old. And although still going strong, there were some things that bugged me (some of them since the purchase, to be honest). The sunroof for instance. Not only does it weigh a fair bit, it also takes up headroom (I’m over 1.90 m) and more importantly, it causes a common problem with these cars: rust. Water enters the sunroof assembly and is drained by tubes on the four corners of the roof. The tubes go down the A and C pillars but with the sill drainage often clogged up over the years, the sills and rear fenders eventually start to rust.

On top of that, previous owners didn’t treat the paint too well. So my 3E5 Super red was super pink on most horizontal panels. Also, my passenger side sill was dented. Function > form, but a respray certainly was on the wish list was well. Functional doesn’t have to look crap.

All this didn’t stop me from driving and tracking my car though, so in went an Autronic ECU to replace the outdated factory fuel control system. In pursuit of more power and better handling, I finally decided it was time to do it properly and rebuild the car from the ground up. In order to enjoy this car for years to come this meant a complete restoration, really. And while restoring it, I can improve/reinforce everything I want from chassis to engine. So after having saved up funds to get the ball rolling in 2010, I went one last time to the ‘Ring and took Carlos off the road again for ‘some maintenance’. Only this time I’m going ballistic, lol.

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But shortly after I started stripping the chassis, Erik Wevers contacted me. “Would you be interested in an ex-TTE grp A ST185 chassis?”

Err.. What?

“An ex Toyota Team Europe works Group A8 ST185 chassis. Like this:

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Don’t worry about the surface rust, we can blast and paint it for you.”

Wow.. Dilemma. A serious one. A genuine ex TTE 185 is as good as it gets in my book. Owning one has been a dream for years. And I could afford this one. It’s a perfect base for a proper build. But being a true enthusiast and fulltime perfectionist, there is no way in hell I would ruin a TTE chassis with non TTE, non period correct parts. No half-ass replica for me. So that would mean buying an entire grp A car, in parts. In very, VERY expensive parts (15k euro turbo anyone?). Which, for me, at this point in life, is impossible. Plus, where do I leave another car? I haven’t got the space - it would realistically mean I’d have to get rid of my Carlos Sainz.

I decided to pass on the TTE chassis and keep my car. After all, it’s the car I have a love/hate relationship with for five years now. You can’t simply throw that away, right? I’ve had so much fun with it and there is much more to come! Maybe one day I’ll be fortunate enough to buy another ex TTE 185, who knows..

_________________
René - Carlos Sainz 2433•5000
Turbocelica.nl | ST185 CS restoration and full rebuild

If it ain't broken.. it soon will be


Last edited by Meurz on Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:43 pm
Posts: 998
Location: NLD
Car Model: None
Anyway, this is where the actual build starts. The goal: to build my ultimate street legal (and usable!) GT-Four, which is suited for track duties and above all provides genuine fun driving it. I’m not going to build an all-out race car, I’m trying to build a fast road car which I can safely race.

So, here we go. That sunroof has to go. Welding up the sunroof hole will look *bleep*, so a new roof skin was the only way to go. After contacting my Toyota dealer, I found out that a new non- sunroof roof skin a) costs 700 euro before taxes and b) is discontinued. So I bought this:

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Oh yes. This Veyron killer worked out to be cheaper than a new roof and provided a lot of fun as well. A few diligent incisions were needed:

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Sunstroke: Check! Hardtop: Check!

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And since there is a skid pan behind the fence in the photo above, we could also test the improved handling of the AT180 Barchetta with its low COG:

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With the tank empty and the worn clutch now totally gone, it was time to take off the usable parts and have a scrap yard pick the car up. Back to Carlos!

The first step of any proper rebuild is to strip the car to the bone. This basically meant removing everything from the car, including the interior sound deadening and under seal. Although a majority of the parts won’t make it back onto the car, I decided to photo document as much of the stripping process as I could in order to be able to complete the puzzle later on. I’ll probably end up missing important information anyway, but at least I have something to work from in my archive.

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I kept the car driveable as long as possible for my own convenience. Amazing how little stuff actually is required to make it all work! The photo below shows the rust I mentioned earlier. The black hose on the right is the RR drainage from the sunroof:

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With dry ice not readily available to me and because I often end up doing things the hard way because race car, I took a hammer and some chisels to remove the sound deadening and seam sealant from the interior. So far this has been my favourite job on the car and with favourite job I mean absolutely worst job on a car ever. Very time consuming.

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Underneath the sound deadening you’ll find green primer. Luckily I didn’t find any rust here. :)

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Aaand.. Nearly done. With some tar remover on a rag I removed the last little chips in order to get a fairly clean result:

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At this stage, over 10 kg of sound deadening and seam sealant has been removed (interior only). Total time spent: I've lost count already!

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René - Carlos Sainz 2433•5000
Turbocelica.nl | ST185 CS restoration and full rebuild

If it ain't broken.. it soon will be


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:44 pm
Posts: 4067
Location: drinking devil fuel
Car Model: ST205
Unbelievable....
You had a conversation with Erik Wevers that didn't involve a bar of soap glued to the shower floor :shock:

Good luck with the project Rene. I think it will be another epic build


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:14 am 
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Group N

Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:13 pm
Posts: 406
Location: Weymouth southwest dorset
Car Model: None
Thats a fantastic write up so far.

Good luck with the rest of build.

_________________
1998 ford st24, 186hp 2.5 v6- sold
1997 bmw e36 318ti, mint hellrot red- sold
1992 celica gt4 st185- td04 340hp/330lbs
1998 mercedes E280- sold
1998 pug 1.9 td- mile muncher!
1993 rx7 542hp savage monster!!
2007 BMW 335i- in the shop gettin built!! :-)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:24 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:14 am
Posts: 3239
Location: Camberley, Surrey
Car Model: ST205
Rene,

Thanks for sharing, look forward to the updates! :D

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:53 pm
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Location: Another Shire County
Car Model: ST185
:shock: wow!
There's some seriously hard graft gone on there - hats off to you Rene.
Look forward to following the build 8)

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1990 White UK Celica ST185 - Project DTM
1997 Cream BMW R1200C (as seen in James Bond "Tomorrow Never Dies")
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:06 am
Posts: 4743
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
I especially like the pic of you 'weightlifting' the roof section recovered from the fast and furious 185 .....a Classic :)

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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:27 am
Posts: 409
Location: Chirnside, Scottish Borders
Car Model: ST205
lol fast and furious, I would love some fake flames on the 185, theyre good for 20bhp and weigh next to nothing for the track build

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:43 pm
Posts: 998
Location: NLD
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two_OH_five wrote:
Unbelievable....
You had a conversation with Erik Wevers that didn't involve a bar of soap glued to the shower floor :shock:

Good luck with the project Rene. I think it will be another epic build

Thanks mate. The lube probably wasn't included in the price he mentioned though! :lol: I'm really looking forward to driving it again. I hope to take it to Le Mans one day. 8)

Jon9985 wrote:
Thats a fantastic write up so far.

Good luck with the rest of build.

Thanks (2x)! :D

Sirius wrote:
Rene,

Thanks for sharing, look forward to the updates! :D

Hi Mike! You're welcome, I love to read build threads so the least I can do in return is share mine. Don't expect to see it finished anytime soon though, my mancave is prio 1. :wink:

Muddy Water wrote:
:shock: wow!
There's some seriously hard graft gone on there - hats off to you Rene.
Look forward to following the build 8)

Thanks Mud. I'll make sure there are a lot op pics included and won't bore you guys too much with my Engrish lol.

TrackToyFour wrote:
I especially like the pic of you 'weightlifting' the roof section recovered from the fast and furious 185 .....a Classic :)

I think I don't have the 'me standing in the engine bay' pic yet, thanks for reminding me haha!

jgtcracer wrote:
lol fast and furious, I would love some fake flames on the 185, theyre good for 20bhp and weigh next to nothing for the track build

You should have seen the bodykit which was held on with wood screws as well as the hq finish of the entire car.. It was really something!

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René - Carlos Sainz 2433•5000
Turbocelica.nl | ST185 CS restoration and full rebuild

If it ain't broken.. it soon will be


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:43 pm
Posts: 998
Location: NLD
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With most of the interior gone, I started on removing the engine. This is what it looked like before decommissioning, after 18 years of service:

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After taking off most bolt-on parts and removing the surrounding hardware, it was time to remove the engine and gearbox from the car. Since the garage I work in is quite cramped (and I could use a ramp at one of my friends’ workplace), it was trailer time. Luckily the weather was just perfect:

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How to remove the engine
Step 1: put car on ramp:

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Step 2: remove engine:

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And there it is: 1998 cc worth of 2nd generation 3S-GTE. Thanks for your service!

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And with everything back home you can see what I mean with cramped..

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After some rearrangement of the place (getting my dad to take some of his stuff elsewhere, lol) I did manage to create somewhat space to work in. Here you see again more parts have been removed from the engine bay:

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So far, removing bits has just been a matter of removing nuts and bolts. Although I’m probably going to use new fastening hardware throughout and a lot of stuff isn’t going back into the car, I decided to bag and label everything for future reference:

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In order to be able to stitch weld the chassis for additional stiffening, as well as do a thorough rust check, I wanted to get rid of all seam sealant. Wire wheels for both angle grinder and drill are your friend for this job. Make sure you use the proper safety gear btw, the sealant ends up everywhere!

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This is what the steering rack stay looks like after some wire wheel action. Luckily I didn’t find any cracks (known problem of the ST185 chassis) in this area:

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A spot weld drill bit was used to remove surplus chassis parts like the battery tray:

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In order to clean the wire wheel mess I was left with, I rolled Carlos out now and then. At this stage there wasn’t much left of the car other than a naked shell:

Image

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René - Carlos Sainz 2433•5000
Turbocelica.nl | ST185 CS restoration and full rebuild

If it ain't broken.. it soon will be


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:43 pm
Posts: 998
Location: NLD
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During one of many ST185 related internet adventures, I came across a yellow ST185 in Japan that was built for drag racing (2.2 L HKS stroker with T04R, OS gear set, TRD front diff, 650+ hp, 0-100 kmh in under 3 secs, good stuff). Through the Celica club website I spotted it on and with help of Google Translate I got in contact with the owner, but unfortunately I didn’t get much information of the setup. I then lost track of the car, until a few years later (2008) when a guy in the UK apparently bought and imported it (and added a GT wing). Look at it, what a monster:

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Like the Pit Road M RC (one of my favourite 185’s ever) on one of the best wheels ever made: the now discontinued RAYS Volk Racing SE37K. If anyone can help me get a set in 17x8 or wider (5x100 +38 or lower), please let me know!

Alex, owner of ‘the Wasp’, put some parts up for sale in 2010. Long story short: I bought the carbon doors, mirrors and bonnet! The doors are made by FRP Magic in Japan and are equipped with electric windows which I like, because one can’t reach manual winders easily when strapped in a racing harness. Both the inner and outer shell are direct copies of the genuine Toyota parts. Although I haven’t put them on the scales yet, they’re roughly half the weight of the factory items.

The mirrors are made by Autosport Iwase and a direct copy of TTE works mirrors (Yasuhiro Iwase actually finished 4th in the 1993 Safari Rally Kenya while driving for TTE in a works ST185!). They are super lightweight (over 1 kg lighter each, compared to the factory mirrors), you can actually see through the carbon weave when you hold them in front of a light source. The widebody body lines look even fatter with these mirrors, love it!

The carbon bonnet is made by an unknown Japanese manufacturer. It’s a direct (and therefore perfect) copy of a genuine Toyota bonnet and uses the original Toyota vents and carbon look strips on the end. I love and want to retain the look of the factory body, especially the fascia. It’s what makes the ST185 a ST185. So I’m really happy this one uses the factory trim and therefore has the sharp factory looks. It isn't the lightest bonnet ever made, but at 10 kg still lighter than the factory CS bonnet (19 kg all-in). Apart from the mirrors, the carbon parts will be painted the same colour as the car.

Besides the carbon bits I have also bought an FRP hatch. Alex has started up a little FRP Celica parts business with a friend of him and sorted me out while I visited him to pick up the other parts. The rear end will be finished off with a factory spoiler with 3rd brake light and a drivers side spoiler tip from a ST185 GT-Four Rally, a lightweight model only sold in Japan which doesn’t have the antenna hole in the tip.

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René - Carlos Sainz 2433•5000
Turbocelica.nl | ST185 CS restoration and full rebuild

If it ain't broken.. it soon will be


Last edited by Meurz on Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:13 pm
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Location: Bournemouth
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Excellent write up, you have a great writing style which makes this a very entertaining read.

From my experience of GT4's I've worked on, 20 year old Toyota nuts & bolts are in far better condition than 1/2/3 year old 'new' fixings. The latter normally end up coming out with a drill or angle grinder, where the genuine ones come out as intended. I would re-use original bolts for most and use new genuine items for certain critical ones.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Group N

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:55 am
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Location: launceston cornwall
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thats bumble bee the guy that owns it is on here i belive

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:44 pm
Posts: 539
Location: Aldershot,Hampshire
Car Model: ST205
Great thread - Alex is selling those alloys but not sure what size they are or if they will fit over your brakes

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:43 pm
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Nibbles wrote:
Excellent write up, you have a great writing style which makes this a very entertaining read.

From my experience of GT4's I've worked on, 20 year old Toyota nuts & bolts are in far better condition than 1/2/3 year old 'new' fixings. The latter normally end up coming out with a drill or angle grinder, where the genuine ones come out as intended. I would re-use original bolts for most and use new genuine items for certain critical ones.

Thanks mr. Bear, I'm glad you enjoy reading it! :)
I think the problem with new bolts is people don't clean the thread in the chassis properly before they put in new hardware. That way you need way too much torques to get them fully in, or out again. Been there, done that as well.. :oops:

sketchmyster wrote:
thats bumble bee the guy that owns it is on here i belive

Yeah I know him, his username is alex237.

johnyboy1976 wrote:
Great thread - Alex is selling those alloys but not sure what size they are or if they will fit over your brakes

I know John, but they are 16x8 and I need 17s to fit over my APs. First world problems! :mrgreen:

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René - Carlos Sainz 2433•5000
Turbocelica.nl | ST185 CS restoration and full rebuild

If it ain't broken.. it soon will be


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