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 Post subject: BC coilovers
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:24 am 
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Group N

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:23 pm
Posts: 256
Location: London
Car Model: None
Well my friend Taras has been posting my findings about these BC coilovers.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BC-Adjustable-Coi ... 240%3A1318

I've asked a few questions about them and the reply was:

"Hi Ray , ist of all i know all about the d2 product as i used to sell these but have since stopped through a number of problems ..and the ST205 kits i sold many and found many issues with this kit in particular .. it was i who told them about the st205 issues and possible stiffer springs being needed ,, the kg went from 8kg to 10kg .. the coil spring on the D2 was a very small compact design .. it resulted in the car skipping across the road on corners from being too hard .. the whole design was wrong and dident work and does not work !!

The BC i got developed with BC through my request and sent them oe samples to test , design and make with the result being very good and a cheaper alternative to the very expensive Tein and TRD units which in defence are a complete superstrut .. but 3 times the cost of these ..
I sent them oe and tein samples from cars here in NZ ..
The kit was made and developed in about 2 months .It was sent back to me here in NZ and was tested by a ex st205 rally driver in NZ , this guy now runs a toyota dealership here and was tested on one of his road cars ..
I have plebty of pics from the kit being fitted which was the 1st sample type .
The BC does not have travel problems because its a full lenght coilover like the other kits but just with a different fitting on the bottom .. same lenght springs aet as the other kits they sell and the same as the teins .. this is why it works and the D2 and clones did not ..
Also the BC will be a better ride anyway from there insert design , bump stops ( which d2 does not have ) and larger capacity oil increase in the BR series .. i use the BR in both my cars after changing from D2 ..the result is amazing .. in ALL areas .. i dont have a ST205 but a STI and FTO .. but the the ST205 uses the same idea of shocking and damping as for all other models ..
The BC does not need cutting .. its the oe shock stem where it fits on top of the cast superstrut knuckle .. once cut off it leave a hollow hole in the cast knuckle of the superstrut thus allowing the stepped design of the lower BC to sit inside .. then a weld just to hold in place is needed .. ( so its NOT weldings two stems together which would be weak and dangerous )
BC also make the suspension for jap well known brands like greddy so these guys know what they are doing .. unlike the D2 kits which im sure were not road tested big shame as this kit gave me a lot of headaches !!

hope this answers your questions

cheers james"

And they also managed to send me some pictures:
Image
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Image

Image
Image
Image

Now does anyone have any thoughts on these because I'm convinced and going to buy a set this week.

Some guys at the GT4OC mite be joining a group buy later in future too so does anyone mite want to consider?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:00 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:06 am
Posts: 4743
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
This looks very interesting.

One of the problems with the TRD coilovers is the poor quality finish, TEIN are a bit better but the KYB four point adjustable Super Street units are best of all.

Do you know if the BC units are powder coated? I think this would help enormously and stop them rusting badly on our salty winter roads.

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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:22 pm 
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Group N

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:23 pm
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Location: London
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Excellant question about the powdercoating. I'll ask that on my next quesion.
Thinking out to a celica bubble where we all favour Tein and TRD only. BC is such a huge and reptiable company and IMO arguably on the same level as Tein.
Mitsubishi Lancers, Skylines, Silvia and Subarus all use them and are quite highly rated in their forums.

This was a review given at the Lancer club after their first group buy:

"Introduction
When we first got the opportunity to test out the new BR series coilovers, I must say I was a bit skeptical. Having not heard much about the company and with a typical street price of only $1000, I was not expecting much. After doing a little research, it turns out that BC Racing is actually a large manufacturer that produces several well known brand name suspensions including some that are quite a bit more expensive. The BR Series is the company’s first exclusive product with a design entirely their own. The BR series features a mono tube design, 46mm piston/53mm housing, 30 way single adjustable dampening, front camber plates, rear pillowball mounts, and separate height and preload adjustments. The standard spring set for the Lancer Evolution is 8k front and 6k rear, however customers may choose any spring rate from 6k to 12k at an additional cost. This may prove to be a beneficial option for those looking to maximize performance at the cost of ride quality.

Our initial inspection showed no surprises. Build quality appears good all around and all functions work smoothly. The body is powder coated steel with aluminum adjustment collars. A nice feature is the adjustment knob which requires no hex wrenches or special tools to adjust and functions perfectly with 16 distinct clicks. Although rebuilds are not currently available in the US, replacements are. If your struts are in need of a rebuild, BC is currently replacing them with new damper unit for $95/each.


Installation
Complete coilover installations are a straightforward process since you are completely removing the old suspension and replacing. A couple notes to include however would be first to start by removing the nuts on the strut towers and then work on the bottom which may make removing them a little easier. Second, in the rear, you may have to apply downward pressure on the suspension to remove the OEM struts. When installing the coilovers, set the preload so that the spring is under no tension, but is snug in place with no play. Your height adjustment will probably require several adjustments to get the vehicle even, so start with an initial guess making it even side to side and install the coilovers. Tighten the two upper collars against each other and leave the lower one loose for height adjustment. Turn the entire strut body to make the suspension expand or contract until the height is adjusted properly, then tighten the lower collar.

Once installed, it is imperative that you get a quality alignment and should also strongly consider having the vehicle corner weighted for optimal performance. Without a proper setup, it is possible to actually decrease your handling performance

Street Testing
We have put roughly 1,000 miles of street driving through varied roads in our testing. The results were actually quite surprising. Despite our expectations, the BR series performed quite well. The damping level seems to be work very well for the spring rates with quality dampening even over very rough surfaces. The ride is firm, noticeably more so than stock, but not overly harsh. All but the larger mid corner bumps where absorbed without upsetting the vehicle’s balance. The bounciness or under dampening found in many budget systems was not to be seen in any significant level here. Instead we found ourselves comparing the BR series to several more notable and more expensive mid levels systems such as the Tein Flex Mono which would probably be the most direct competitor in terms of our overall impressions. For such a budget minded price, we can think of few systems that would have noticeable advantages without spending significantly more.


Track Testing
Previously the test car for this review was running a higher end more track oriented system and alignment (3.25 camber front, 2.5 rear). For this testing, the specs were set as close as possible with 2.75 front, 2.5 rear. Testing took place on the 12 hour course of Sebring Raceway, known for its rough surfaces. Again as an inexpensive street oriented setup expectations were not high, although our results on the street were promising. We were surprised by the ability and consistency offered by the BR series. While lap times were slower by approximately 2-3 seconds from the previous setup over the 3.7 mile course, the impression was quite good. After several tests, we left the dampers at +8 front, +10 rear for what seemed to be the best results. The majority of time seemed to be lost in the few very high load, high speed, rough sections such as turn 17 where exit speed was down slightly. While there was an advantage with a more track oriented (and more expensive) coilover setup, the BR series proved worthy for occasional track events which fits perfectly into their design goals and target consumer.

Conclusion
While it’s easy to make snap judgments on parts such as this based on price and where they are made, the BC Racing BR series has broken our expectations and proved itself a worthy street and occasional track system at a great price and a strong competitor for systems that cost $500-700 more. Additionally, BC Racing has announced a new inverted mono tube setup for a bit more performance that will be available shortly."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:53 pm
Posts: 1736
Location: Another Shire County
Car Model: ST185
Very interesting :D

I can see that these have been designed to offer the customer the best of both worlds at an affordable price.
They appear to be very acceptable/good for general street use (including the odd enthusiastic stint) but also good...
Quote:
for occasional track events.


Also noticed this...
Quote:
The body is powder coated steel with aluminum adjustment collars.
:D

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1990 White UK Celica ST185 - Project DTM
1997 Cream BMW R1200C (as seen in James Bond "Tomorrow Never Dies")
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:20 am 
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Group N
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Our experience - D2 is complete *bleep*, reaaly awful stuff.

Tein SS - we can't use it, it's not for racing, just for maling fun. Also we asre deeply concerned that Tein's do not worth it's money.

Mod with insert of non-OEM damper to mounting bracket ("hook") of OEM-SSS damper - we passed it so many times, that now this operation is no-job for us :) A little welding, & it's ready for work.
All aftermarket available dampers for ST205 are complete *bleep* in terms of
a) does it worth it's price?
b) does it suits for serious sport application...

Only in this last season we made a nice dampers, & on last 3 stages of our rally champ we forgot about dampers completely... I.e. it began to work as we wanted.
That is the result of 4yr job in this direction...(i.e. for ST205)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:44 pm
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Location: drinking devil fuel
Car Model: ST205
It's an interesting concept

DJ looked at doing this modification ages ago using one of my old struts. However, the approach was a little different, milling out the old strut tube from the superstrut "C" section to allow direct fitment of a stock 50mm damper tube. IIRC the method ended up with a broken mill bit due to the hardness of the cast lower section

I'm always on the lookout for insert information. The stock struts can be rebuilt in coilover format quite easily (for someone who knows what they're doing, not me lol) using a weld on adjustable lower platrorm collar readily available off the shelf. Again this is something that datajon has produced, and no doubt Prochorus will have been down this road somewhen - it's an obvious choice and with correct dampers should produce a setup which is good for trackday type abuse. However, finding suitable inserts is a pain in the proverbial. A trawl of Autosport trade day revealed only one supplier, Gaz, who had a useful looking product. There are others about (KYB for example) but finding information on them is difficult

IMO, for a true race spec setup you're still better to look into Mac strut conversion (rules permitting) as seen in Don's chassis thread. Should save 20KGs of unsprung weight that way and make suspension/tyre performance much more predictable. Certainly not an option for the feint hearted though

At the moment I'm looking at "upside down" damper conversions. Suprisingly that looks quite promising as there are plenty of options out there for dampers with bolts at both ends. This method would use a setup similar to the BC insert into the lower section, including a lower spring seat, but would open up a plethora of coilover choices


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:47 pm 
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Group N

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:23 pm
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Location: London
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Prochorus familiaris I think its safe to say everyone thinks the same about D2.
As for the BC coilovers, I woulnt expect them to be on a competitive level for rallysport but for casual track and road use it mite be worth while or so I hope.
So would we expect the dampers you've made ever going into production? If so I think it'll be the serious track users who would be buything them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:55 pm 
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TOF,

Yes, we plan to produice it, and we plan that the price will be about OEM dampers, or little bit higher.
The idea is that these dampers will also suitable for road use - if you want to race - ok, if you want just to ride on the road - ok, no probs.

Some pics from last rally (Dec) - with use of these dampers :)

Image

Image

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"To raven, to do a crap, to sward a pinkie - just that are the needs of a real man"

(E.M.Remark, "Three camrades")


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:11 pm 
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Group N

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:23 pm
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Location: London
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can we expect an ETA Prochorus familiaris?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:18 pm 
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YCM,

what is ETA?

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"To raven, to do a crap, to sward a pinkie - just that are the needs of a real man"

(E.M.Remark, "Three camrades")


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Estimated time of arrival. (ETA)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:56 pm 
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Ahm...

This summer, I hope, we will put it as a serie.

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"To raven, to do a crap, to sward a pinkie - just that are the needs of a real man"

(E.M.Remark, "Three camrades")


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:06 am
Posts: 4743
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
Mr PF, good to see pics of your rally weapon :D

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Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:35 pm 
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Small story about new dampers

Image

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"To raven, to do a crap, to sward a pinkie - just that are the needs of a real man"

(E.M.Remark, "Three camrades")


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:58 pm 
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Group N

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:23 pm
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Location: London
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WEll the coilovers have arrived. Very nice. I'll hopefully start the installation next week when i have the time.
Image


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