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Sunny
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:15 pm 
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Hi Wolf,

i also had the 280L/h pump if you remember you gave me the tip with the supra rubber

the issue is that the 280L pump is not plug&play, she just fit the bracket with some slight modifications -> i was not happy with the mounting rubber and the 205 bracket so sold the pump

greetz

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Wolf_Tm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:19 pm 
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Sunny wrote:
Hi Wolf,

i also had the 280L/h pump if you remember you gave me the tip with the supra rubber

the issue is that the 280L pump is not plug&play, she just fit the bracket with some slight modifications -> i was not happy with the mounting rubber and the 205 bracket so sold the pump

greetz


280lph is just a bit larger so you have to bent a bit the pipe and that's it...
I'm not personally using it, but mounted a lot of them on friends' cars without any problem...

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Sunny
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:25 am 
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Hi,

and you have to use new electric connectors and a supra rubber for 25€ :(
i was 90% sure that the rubber doesn't make problems but i couldn't sleep well any longer :lol:

but let's discuss a other case, do you use the oem wiring (restistor, wire cross-section and fuse )?

greetz

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sklopendra
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:13 pm 
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Sunny wrote:
Hi,

and you have to use new electric connectors and a supra rubber for 25€ :(
i was 90% sure that the rubber doesn't make problems but i couldn't sleep well any longer :lol:

but let's discuss a other case, do you use the oem wiring (restistor, wire cross-section and fuse )?

greetz


Image

stock
http://www.st205wrc.ru/stock.jpg

supra pump+walbro strainer
Image

ready to go
Image

Usa spec supra pump (denso) works well up to 1.5 bars of boost.
No changes to electric wiring, only connectors at pump
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Gary ST165
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:58 pm 
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sklopendra,

thanks for posting excellent comparison pictures yet again :)

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Wolf_Tm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:45 pm 
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sklopendra wrote:
Usa spec supra pump (denso) works well up to 1.5 bars of boost.



Just to give correct information:
not necessarily.

It depends ALL on your engine power (and BSFC) and your base fuel pressure.
On a stock engine/stockish turbo Supra pump could be even good for 2.0 bars, while on more powerful 3SGTE is not even good at 1 bar.
And I'm talking about personal experiences.

So instead of saying "works well up to X bars", that means nothing, better to post a fuel pump flow chart:


Image

IMHO.

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Gary ST165
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Car Model: ST165
195130-1020 Denso Fuel Pump (OEM for Toyota Supra Twin Turbo)

http://www.expressfuelpumps.com/1951301 ... -3814.html

Flow Rates:

290 LPH @ 43 PSI @ 14 V
260 LPH @ 43 PSI @ 12 V

277 LPH @ 43.5 PSI @ 13.5 V

260 LPH @ 58 PSI @ 14V
220 LPH @ 58 PSI @ 12 V

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Sunny
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:10 am 
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Hi,

so you all use the oem system for the pump

15A EFI is ok for the pump and no problems with the resistor

i just can put the fuel pump in?

greetz

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sklopendra
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:33 am 
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Wolf_Tm wrote:
sklopendra wrote:
Usa spec supra pump (denso) works well up to 1.5 bars of boost.

Just to give correct information:
not necessarily.

It depends ALL on your engine power (and BSFC) and your base fuel pressure.
On a stock engine/stockish turbo Supra pump could be even good for 2.0 bars, while on more powerful 3SGTE is not even good at 1 bar.
And I'm talking about personal experiences.

So instead of saying "works well up to X bars", that means nothing, better to post a fuel pump flow chart:



i tested this supra denso fuel pump by my self and posting here my own expirience (same IMHO), no unnecesary words. With boost 2 bars and 3 bars in fuel system (5 in total, 5*14.7=73.5psi) performance of supra pump wishes to be higher and don't forget to have some extra reserve in pump's performance. My results for supra pump was 100ltr/hour at 6 bars and 12V. Of course engine can be high boosted but with low air flow, but i don't speak about "disabled" also 2 bars is out of range for a stock turbo :-)
IMHO - use BOSCH 0 580 254 044, and have 200ltr/hour @ 6 bar. I have both of this pumps installed and no worries about poor fuel supply. Pump costs much cheaper, than burned engine.

"original" performance chart

Image
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two_OH_five
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:13 pm 
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What a superb post

Thanks for sharing this data, it is very useful
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Wolf_Tm
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:03 pm 
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two_OH_five wrote:
What a superb post

Thanks for sharing this data, it is very useful


All comes from this very old site, I thought you already seen this:

http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumpguide.htm

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Wolf_Tm
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Last edited by Wolf_Tm on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wolf_Tm
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:23 pm 
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sklopendra wrote:
Wolf_Tm wrote:
sklopendra wrote:
Usa spec supra pump (denso) works well up to 1.5 bars of boost.

Just to give correct information:
not necessarily.

It depends ALL on your engine power (and BSFC) and your base fuel pressure.
On a stock engine/stockish turbo Supra pump could be even good for 2.0 bars, while on more powerful 3SGTE is not even good at 1 bar.
And I'm talking about personal experiences.

So instead of saying "works well up to X bars", that means nothing, better to post a fuel pump flow chart:



i tested this supra denso fuel pump by my self and posting here my own expirience (same IMHO), no unnecesary words. With boost 2 bars and 3 bars in fuel system (5 in total, 5*14.7=73.5psi) performance of supra pump wishes to be higher and don't forget to have some extra reserve in pump's performance. My results for supra pump was 100ltr/hour at 6 bars and 12V. Of course engine can be high boosted but with low air flow, but i don't speak about "disabled" also 2 bars is out of range for a stock turbo :-)
IMHO - use BOSCH 0 580 254 044, and have 200ltr/hour @ 6 bar. I have both of this pumps installed and no worries about poor fuel supply. Pump costs much cheaper, than burned engine.

"original" performance chart

Image



For once and last time, same as before:

like it or not, saying "this pump is good up to X" means NOTHING.

In particular, Supra pump at 5 bar (3 base fuel + 2 turbo) AND 13.5volts (not 12v!) flows (looking at the same site you got the image) 205 lph.

205 lph is SAFELY good for:

205/60= 3.4 l/min
3400 cc/min / 7.3 (*) = 465 CV


*: K constant value valid for 30% OVER supply - Forced Induction Performance Tuning book, page 208

465 hp.
Ok?
Perfect.

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Wolf_Tm
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GT-four ST205 Snowy White with selfmade 3SGTE v4.1 - [2.34kg/bhp DynoDynamics]
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Wolf_Tm
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Wolf_Tm wrote:

465 hp.
Ok?
Perfect.



Just to confirm it AGAIN, here

http://www.stealth316.com/misc/fuelpumpcomparo.xls

if you look at the Supra pump (Denso 195130-1020) AND 75 psi row, with a BSFC of 0.5 (like I said in my first post....................), the maximum allowable power is 662 BHP.
Obviously this value is the maximum measured, and gives no safe room.

Enough said.

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Wolf_Tm
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sklopendra
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:23 pm 
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Wolf_Tm wrote:
For once and last time, same as before:
like it or not, saying "this pump is good up to X" means NOTHING.
In particular, Supra pump at 5 bar (3 base fuel + 2 turbo) AND 13.5volts (not 12v!) flows (looking at the same site you got the image) 205 lph.
205 lph is SAFELY good for:
205/60= 3.4 l/min
3400 cc/min / 7.3 (*) = 465 CV
*: K constant value valid for 30% OVER supply - Forced Induction Performance Tuning book, page 208
465 hp.
Ok?
Perfect.


Relax Wolf_TM :-)
5 bar (3 base fuel + 2 turbo) AND 13.5volts flows (looking at the same site you got the image) 205 lph - ok, i don't care about +/-5.
205 lph is (2 bars of boost):
205/60= 3.4 l/min
3400 cc/min / 4 = 850CC per injector at 2 bar of boost with no over supply, if you talking about 30% included performance reserve, than 850cc must be reduced to 650cc....

1.5 bars of boost:

220 lph/60=3.66 l/min
3.66/4 = 916cc/min, 916 and 30% reserve included = 704cc/min...... for 1.5 bar of boost and 2ltr engine it is quite real figures.

And your fairy stories about CC/min and horsepower leave for old ladies, too much things affects on it.
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Wolf_Tm
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:31 pm 
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sklopendra wrote:

And your fairy stories about CC/min and horsepower leave for old ladies, too much things affects on it.



Ok, I'll tell to A. Graham Bell who wrote the book.

"Honest is who change his mind to meet the truth.
Dishonest is who change the truth to meet his mind"
Immanuel Kant

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Wolf_Tm
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