just wondering would 1 of these be ok to use as a header tank?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... ink:top:en

_________________
BRD Page

http://www.brooks-brd.co.uk/

https://www.facebook.com/Brooks.Racing.Dev

Hi,

if the cap on top of it do not leak, possible yes

but why such a big tank, as it is really hard to find space in our engine bays

greetz

_________________
KEEP COOL UNDER PRESSURE

street legal?.....perhaps in tschibuti

Hi Sunny, ill be fitting it were the power steering tanks is and moving the power steering tank lower down, plus it would all so help with the extra water for cooling

_________________
BRD Page

http://www.brooks-brd.co.uk/

https://www.facebook.com/Brooks.Racing.Dev

Hi Mixer,

As part of my track toy build I looked into the design of the header tank in some detail. You might find the info below helpful:

When Fensport developed their ~500bhp ST205 (Gen6) Toyota Celica GT-Four they experienced some issues with the header tank design and mounting. Basically it wasn't mounted high enough and the tank leaked coolant from the pressure cap. I suspect that the coolant accumulated in the header tank and reduced the capacity available for coolant overflow resulting from the ~5% expansion at normal engine operating temperatures.

Based on a top estimate of 10 litres coolant in the engine rads and hoses this would result in approximately 0.5litres of coolant volume. Assuming a coolant operating pressure of 1bar then this would require a total header tank capacity of 1 litre. Clearly this would max out the header tank at 1bar.. Increasing the header tank capacity to 1.5litres gives a safety margin which should avoid blowing the 1bar rad cap with consequent loss of coolant or worse

Using the above logic the fix was to increase the header tank capacity to 1.5litres and mount as high as possible in the wing to reduce or hopefully eliminate the chance of the header tank filling with coolant .

I know you have a 185 but the same principles probably apply given the high spec of your Four. Hope that helps!

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

thanks TrackToyFour it gives me somthing to work with

_________________
BRD Page

http://www.brooks-brd.co.uk/

https://www.facebook.com/Brooks.Racing.Dev

That looks remarkably like the escort Mk4 diesel header tank I'm using in my 185. It fits in the PS tank position but is a tight fit, pushing the bonnet grill up a bit with the bonnet closed.

_________________
If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

Hi,

i think i missunderstand something on TTF's quote
can someone explain me that a little bit easier?

a header tank is just a bottle where air can escape from the cooling cycle and compensate this volume with water

greetz

_________________
KEEP COOL UNDER PRESSURE

street legal?.....perhaps in tschibuti

Sunny,

Basically he means the header tank was:

1. Too small
2. Too low down.

This resulted in the tank becoming full of water.

So the tank was redesigned to make it bigger and higher up so it didn't get full. The new design took into account the fact that the coolant expands as it gets hotter.

Thats how I understand it!

_________________
GT4DC Events Co-ordinator
1996 ST205 UK

Hi,

way better, now i understand

theoretical it needs a little bit more volume as air in the system is (as air you can get out of the engine -> you can never get all air out of the engine)

but you must have a little bit higher water level in the tank as the highest engine coolant point is

this and the limited space is why i decided to mount the tank on the tower bar

[img][img]http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9366/breathingtank2.jpg[/img][/IMG]

i have no closer picture but here you can see the mounting



greetz

_________________
KEEP COOL UNDER PRESSURE

street legal?.....perhaps in tschibuti

thanks for the pics Sunny so how have you plumed yours in?

_________________
BRD Page

http://www.brooks-brd.co.uk/

https://www.facebook.com/Brooks.Racing.Dev

Mixer, I'm pretty sure the pics from Sunny show his TTE ST205 Group A inspired water-to-air intercooler header tank NOT the engine coolant header. The principle is of course the same but the plumbing is not relevant to the engine coolant header.

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

Hi,

jes you can also see the swirlpot for the IC-system (TRD cap), and next on the header tank of the coolant system (SARD cap)

here the schema



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

and here you can find some more pictures

http://gt4dc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php? ... c&start=90

feel free to drop me any question

PS.: i can get out ~1/4L more

greetz

_________________
KEEP COOL UNDER PRESSURE

street legal?.....perhaps in tschibuti

In rough terms the coolant tank needs roughly 800ml of air in it plus room for any water. Probably closer to 1L of air for cars with big cooling systems

A bit of maths....

Water increases roughly 5% for a 100C rise.
Stock cooling system is 8ish L of water so expands by 400mL
Now the thing that gives you system pressure is compressing the air volume in the header tank. If you compress any amount of air to half it's volume you double the pressure. So if you compress 800mL of air into 400ml you get 1 bar of pressure (2 bar absolute). So your 400ml water expansion gives you a bit less than 1 bar at operating temp. About right. For big rads the system capacity is closer to 10L so 500mL water expansion, 1L air volume required.

If you fit a gurtnormous tank then it still needs the same air volume so you have to fill it with mucho water or you'll end up with low pressure and low boiling point.....


Hope this makes some sense
About 1.5-2L sounds pretty close to the mark

Hi,

i think it becomes needless complex

the air in the system / the air you can breath, is the crucial for the tank volume
you can just refill water to the header tank once the temp. becomes low again, i have done this one time after the first day of driving after mounting it

i know water pretty good and also pressure as i'am also boiler operator in my company, but i definitively see no connection of water volume in the system to header tank volume
if you talk about the O in the chemical furmula H2O, this proportion is insignificant, at least in the water i use

my opinion is and will ever be -> it is just a simple system that allow air to collect outside of the cooling system, nothing complex

greetz

_________________
KEEP COOL UNDER PRESSURE

street legal?.....perhaps in tschibuti

thanks Sunny im allso going to be fitting a swir pot so how do i fit that to it all

_________________
BRD Page

http://www.brooks-brd.co.uk/

https://www.facebook.com/Brooks.Racing.Dev