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oil temps
http://gt4dc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5882		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  mixer72 [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  oil temps
hello every 1 how are we all? the car is running rely well the only thing I’m sort of having problem with is the oil temps :( if I’m out for a blast on the road or doing sprint and hill climb evens its fine but if I’m do 5-8laps of something like castle combe then the temps get up to 110-120c with is not good, I have a 13row oil cooler I’m thinking of taking the thermostat plate out from the oil cooler to see if that will help just wondering would any 1 have any other ideas what I could do? I don’t rely have room to fit a bigger oil cooler.
Author:  Dorris [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:33 am ]
Post subject: 
What sort of airflow do you have through the cooler and just as important out of the engine bay?
Dorris
Author:  mixer72 [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:10 am ]
Post subject: 
If have a look at my build ur see the cooler
Author:  Sirius [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd take the mesh away and see what happens.
Author:  Animal66 [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
With the same size cooler mounted slightly off centre from the middle grill on a 205 (where Sirius's placed his in the guide on here)... After a 25min session @ 1.2bar so 320-330bhp maybe, giving it everything I could, my oil was just getting to the same 125. For the most part was around 100.

After getting some advice off some of the instructors there, I used a little cardboard, and duck tape to make it waterproof (lol) I've directed a little more flow to the cooler and maybe more importantly blocked off the holes around the cooler for it to pass and be wasted. Unfortunately I haven’t tested this on track as my four's off road. But it has kept my normal temps a lot closer to the thermostat's opening temp which is 90c ( slightly opening at 78c).

I'd say improve air flow if possible.
Author:  two_OH_five [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Word on the street and looking at your build thread it looks like the cooler is upside down.

The connections need to be on top of the cooler, not as I think you have it on the bottmo. Otherwise air can be trapped in the top few rows.

Consider your heating dads at home which have bottom connectors. If you drain the system you then have to bleed air from the top of the rads. Same here....

This might not be the full solution but should be part of it .. Or weld a bleed point on the top
Author:  TrackToyFour [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Just thought I'd correct the suggestion that there is a 'right' and a 'wrong' way to mount an oil cooler

To quote from the ThinkAuto catalogue:

Oil coolers may be mounted any way up and are self bleeding, the resistance to oil flow through the matrix means that tanks will fill up evenly pushing out the air before the oil flows through.

http://www.thinkauto.com/plist010106gweb.pdf

Jus to illustrate the point here is a pic of the Lotus 49 Formula One car showing the oil cooler mounted on top of the oil tank with the hose connectors on the bottom.

Image

The later Lotus 72 had the cooler and hose connectors mounted on the side of the tank so it clearly makes no difference how the cooler is mounted.

I would still take the precaution of of pre-filling and priming the cooler the same as I do with a regular oil filter change.

My track project has the cooler mounted in an almost identical location so if I encounter a similar issue I would focus on ensuring a good flow of air out of the cooler as well as in. I would ditch the fine mesh gauze as a starter just in case it is inhibiting air to the cooler matrix. The next job would be to shroud the intake to cooler to make sure the air can't escape before it reaches the cooler matrix. The air should be able to exit from the rear of the cooler matrix easily. Ideally there should be a low pressure area behind the cooler so that effectively helps draw the air through the cooler matrix even at lower speeds. IIRC the Ferrari 430 oil coolers which are located in the same place are shrouded and vent through the wheel arch liner. You might have to experiment a bit with shrouds and exits to get the cooler working fully effectively.

It was a hot day yesterday and even on the motorway return from RallyDay last night my standard JDM ST205 (i.e. small 5 row OEM oil cooler) was running a sump oil temp of 105degC crusing at 70mph.
Author:  two_OH_five [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have to say my personal practical experience is very contra to that advice over a range of different scenarios including water based heat exchange units. It you invert the connections you will trap air.

In my 15litre/min hot water setup I have the heat exchanger mounted horizontally with the connections coming out the front. It takes at least 2 weeks before I hear the air clear completely from the exchanger and I imagine the last remnants are in fact removed by the air dissolving into the water under pressure
The heat ex stands maybe 3" tall so considerably shorter than an oil cooler

Those results, coupled with common sense tell me there is a design flaw in my setup and air is trapped because the connections are below the heat exchanger highest point

Also, just out of interest how do you pre fill an oil rad with connections at the bottom? :lol:

PS
The small radiator is the transmission oil cooler so not directly related to engine oil temperature as such. UK and JDM engine oil cooling is identical
Author:  mixer72 [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
I lower the oil cooler down fill it with oil then start the engine with it still hanging down so the in and out lets are at the top run it for 10mins then check oil level then flip it back the other way so I know there is now air in the cooler all so don’t forget the 185 oil filter is at the top of the engine so if there was any air it would be stuck in there not the cooler
Author:  two_OH_five [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
PPS
Something else to bear in mind is a lack of airflow through the front wings with the Saskatchewan liners in place. One of the things I noted when considering putting an oil cooler in there was the requirement for louvres to allow ait to flow
Author:  TrackToyFour [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not sure your domestic water system can be compared to Formula 1 Steve :lol: or maybe you have the coolest and fastest residence in Bournemouth haha!
Author:  two_OH_five [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:07 pm ]
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That sounds like good common sense Mixer
Author:  mixer72 [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
two_OH_five wrote:
PPS
Something else to bear in mind is a lack of airflow through the front wings with the Saskatchewan liners in place. One of the things I noted when considering putting an oil cooler in there was the requirement for louvres to allow ait to flow


would i help if i cut vents into iner wing liner to help the air flow out?
Author:  TrackToyFour [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thats the Ferrari 430 solution but I'm not sure how effective simply cutting holes in the wheel arch liner will be without a conduit or shroud to guide the air exiting the rear of the cooler to the holes you cut.

Its certainly worth trying though.
Author:  mixer72 [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
water and oil temps are fine on the road motor way and when I’m doing hill climb, its only doing it when I’m out on track for a long time and on boost all the time if I’m on the road water temps sit at 80-85c and oil is at 70-80c so would I be better off getting a new stock rad or a good ally rad? all so will it make a difference were I am taking the readings from? water temps is read from the top hoes just out the top of the rad and the oil is on a sandwich plate under the oil filter on the inner wing
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