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General Track day modifications
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Author:  robbiemcvee [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  General Track day modifications
I've now fitted all the mods I can reasonably afford for handling improvements.

I've just got a few more questions.

Should i be looking to improve the aerodynamics, splitters raiser blocks etc..? (Completely standard ST205 at the moment)

I've got access to corner weight equipment, what sort of distribution of weight should i be looking at, and also what weight is the car in standard form?

I want to monitor inlet temperatures; anyone got a kit they can point me in the direction of?

I am also looking to fit water injection, anyone got one going - or know what the most effective unit is for the price - I’m not looking for anything too expensive though!

Cheers chaps
Rob
Author:  CEL1CA [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
No Expert but..

1) Would think removing such items and taping up the holes would gain a lot more less drag etc. Plus ensure you can get yer rear seating out etc.and anything else that adds dead weight.

2) Serious tech question for the buffs to answer..


3) WI ERL Aquamist system 1s will do you.. not given away tho..
and not really an easy DIY job to fit in my opinion.

Cheers Nigel C.
Author:  GT4WRC [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:39 am ]
Post subject: 
IIRC, spoiler blocks increase the effectiveness of the rear wing which will give in the region of 50kg downforce at 60mph. It will reduce top end speed though.
Gary
Author:  two_OH_five [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Hmmm, so many questions lol

Weight -
What you should be looking for is 50:50 split about 1200kgs

What you will be looking at in a road car (UK spec like mine) is 60:40 F:R split of 1500kgs

IMO, in an average 80%road 20% track,with the exception of riser blocks, I'd forget about aero until you've done many other mods

You're pretty much there chassis wise IIRC (adjustable dampers, new springs, chassis bracing, ARB)
IMO, if you haven't already replace the seats with a good set of buckets to connect you firmly to the car. Pair them with decent harnesses

You've then close to the Four limit without spending large for adjustable suspension arms for optimum/variable suspension geometry.

Next on my list would be power improvement

W/I Kit
I run the Ubiquitous Aquamist 1S setup. Not cheap but well proven.


Inlet temp gauge
There's an Escrote Cosworth one available which is almost plug and play on the 205. Try google for charge temperature gauge
Author:  TrackToyFour [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:19 am ]
Post subject: 
If your ST205 doesnt currently have raiser blocks then I'd recommend them for track work. Mounting the spoiler on raiser blocks effectively turns it into a wing and gives significant amounts of downfore as GT4WRC has mentioned. The small penalty in top speed makes very little difference on track. I've got a TRD carbon rear wing waiting to go on and this should be more effective than the WRC wing on raiser blocks as the end plates are larger and the wing incidence angle can be varied plus you could also fit a gurney flap.

Fitting a front splitter is tricky as you really need to fit an aftermarket front end. I'm lucky enough to have a brand new C-One style front end waiting to be fitted and I am planning on simply bolting a flat curved plate to the underside.

The rear is a bit more difficult as the fuel tank is in the way of fitting a diffuser. I'm not sure how effective this would be anyway as the car is not flat bottomed. I'd imagine that the airflow under the car is a bit of a mess. There might be some advantage if side skirts were fitted and the fuel tank moved into the boot area like the WRC cars. It would then be possible to fabricate and fit a diffuser where the fuel tank used to be. Seems like a lot of effort tho for possibly little gain? For the moment I'll stick with the C-One/front splitter and TRD wing. This will allow me to alter the aero balance front to rear.

Unless you've got adjustable spring platforms on coilover type shocks you won't be able to adjust the corner weights. Standard car kerb weight is 1434kg with weight distribution 61/39% front/rear - Source Autocar Road Test 25/5/94

Not sure what 'inlet temperatures' you want to measure. The stock setup measures the temp at the air filter AND in the plenum chamber. You can buy a digital temp gauge for £12 in Halfords or go for an ACT (Air Charge Temp) gauge for £50. Both are limited to +70deg C. In the case of the plenum gauge the sensor gets flooded by heat soak and will record temps over 70. According to my MoTeC the plenum temps rarely exceed 60deg C.

For water injection I'd agree with Nigel, go for an ERL 1s system. This is not cheap though at around £320+VAT from Fensport. If you're not in a hurry you can pick one up secondhand for around £200 from fleabay or the Oh Cee For Sale section. Diceman (JP) was selling an MBE system recently so it might be worth sending him a PM.

On a final note I'd stress that you don't HAVE to buy all this kit to enjoy your car on track. I tracked mine for three years stock without any problems.
Author:  krude [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The rear is a bit more difficult as the fuel tank is in the way of fitting a diffuser. I'm not sure how effective this would be anyway as the car is not flat bottomed. I'd imagine that the airflow under the car is a bit of a mess


Funny I was looking into this mid last year, C-One do an ally panel for covering the fuel tank area for such purposes.
Add that plus a bit of diamond plate & the jobs a good-un… I think… :? :?
Author:  Kris [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Do you think that the rear diff would be sufficiently cooled if you added some rear plates?

Or is there another mod about to take place! :shock:
Author:  robbiemcvee [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks everyone for the hints and tips.. As ever they are all very useful.

The corner weights are needed to co-inside with lightening mods, the chap that i am working with says its important to consider the distribution of weight went lightening the car and to compensate for my body weight (quite a substantial amount after Christmas i can tell you).

As far as monitoring the inlet temperatures, this is really to protect the engine whist we are discovering more about it. How it performs on the track and how to resolve any potential problems.

Where do I get a TRD style rear wing – or raiser blocks – I know fensport have them – but they also know how to charge accordingly?

Cheers everyone

Rob
Author:  krude [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Do you think that the rear diff would be sufficiently cooled if you added some rear plates?

Or is there another mod about to take place! :shock:


:? :? Good point, maybe a simple scoop, hole & duct would suffice?? That way you would get a nice direct air flow to the exact spot you require… or you could have a simple external water jacket type system to encase the diff & cool, a bit like the step down units that the power companies use on the national grid (Although I believe they use oil opposed to water)… just some ideas :wink: :wink:

Anyway for flat lining the bottom you would need to lower the car some what to get much of an effect, so low it wouldn’t be usable on our public roads in their current state I would have thought :roll: :roll:
Author:  two_OH_five [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
simple external water jacket type system to encase the diff


For goodness sake, don't be coming up with any complicated ideas then lol

I suspect that a simple duct would suffice

The UK model does have a diff cooler. It's nothing more than a small plactic air diverter. I'd have thought a decent scoop full width of any undertray would suffice, particularly if you ran some dedicated cooling ductwork and pointed it at the diff

I also feel that this is a massive amount of work for a minimal gain
The car is not close enough (by about a foot lol) to the ground for any ground effects to work. Sure you'll clean of the breakaway and might add some small downforce but it will be small

Until the rest of the car is flly track dedicated I still think you're urinating against the prevailing breeze

For E.G
Track time is still quite limited. Until you have engine oil coolers, a good FMIC and additional water system tweaks you're probably limited to 5-6 lap stints before things start cooking (based on real empirical measured data)

Until you can run consistantly for 20 laps it's going to be next to impossible to spot the small aero differences that you're talking about in a 1400kg road car

Kerplink
Author:  emicen [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
As above, the difference in objectives between a trackable fast road car and a track car are huge.

I thought C-One only made a front under tray, didnt know they did a rear one?
Author:  TrackToyFour [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
emicen wrote:
I thought C-One only made a front under tray, didnt know they did a rear one?


AFAIK they don't. You'd have to make one up yourself.
Author:  Doomanic [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
What are the absolute minimum mods needed for a track day?
I'm talking about track preparation, not performance enhancing mods.
Author:  two_OH_five [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Absolute minimum is zero

You don't have to modify it to have fun on track

All you need to do is a good service and make sure your car is roadworthy. This will be covered in a forthcoming check type doc but off the top of my head

Check ALL fluid levels. That means oil, coolant, power steering and brake. Check the radiator condition as it will be running hot on track and hence will test out the rad quite well
Also, IMO it's good practise to change the oil both before and after. Track work is hard on the oil so if it's more than 2k old I change it before a session. I always change after too lol.


Jack each wheel in turn and give it a good shake. You're looking for any kind of play (a bad thing lol)

Whip off the wheel and check the brake pads - you'll need plenty of life left in the pads. On a really heavy day expect to do about a thousand miles of damage lol

With the wheel off give the tryes a jolly good visual. You don't need legal tread but you want to make sure there's no bulges/damage. Again depending on enthusiasm/track surface/nature of track expect 1000-2000 miles of tread damage. On really bad tracks (Haynes was a prime example, tight and very abrasive tarcrete surface) I've seen people write off a set of approx 50% worn tyres :shock:


Not really mods but essential prep imo:-
Buy a tyre inflator of some sort and a decent tyre pressure gauge

Additional things to think about on a 185:-
The brakes are a very weak link. They are seriously prone to fade and overheat. You really should consider a pad upgrade to something like Mintex etc. etc before heading for track. At Rallyday I followed Cee in her 185 on what I considered to be a very leisurely 4 laps. By the end of it there were clouds of smoke pouring off her brakes :shock:

Lastly but not leastly
Do not give it full beans on track for prolonged periods. The topmount is pretty poor on a 185. Even with a 205 chargecooler inlet temps are climbing after 5 hot laps at somewhee like Donnington. With the interwarmer this will be a considerably bigger problem.
Also oil and water temps get pretty high at about the same time (5-6 laps). Keeping your sessions to 5-6 laps (unless you've got gauges to keep an eye on temps) should keep you safe. Road tyres might be beginning to suffer from heat at this point too

That's stuff that jumps to mind
Author:  Doomanic [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for that, all good info.
Does the sump plug need lock-wiring?
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